Jessica decides to not have children and has no regrets
Jessica’s early and intense introduction to life saving procedures means many discussions about IVF, surrogacy, and adoption with her husband, family and friends. She listens to herself and her body and chooses a path, that while not easy, lives up to her goal of living life without regrets.
Transcript
Jessica 00:00 I want to be realistic. So I want to talk through everything, like every possibility.
PSC Mami- Monika 00:15 Welcome to PSC Mami, where we share stories at the intersection of PSC and parenthood. PSC or primary sclerosing cholangitis is an autoimmune disease where the immune system wrongly gets the message to attack its own bile ducts. Over time, this leaves them scarred and blocked, and in turn shuts down the liver. Relevant to today's story is that 70 to 80% of PSC patients also have either ulcerative colitis, or Crohn's disease, with ulcerative colitis being much more common. Being diagnosed with two unpredictable and incurable autoimmune diseases can rewrite anyone's life journey including their vision and experience of parenthood. All stories and information shared on PSC Mami are personal experiences and opinions and should not be used as the basis to treat yourself or others.
PSC Mami- Monika 01:11 Today I'm talking with Jessica. When we connected at the PSC Partner's conference, I was struck by her and her husband Ian's vibrant and fun loving spirits. She is thoughtful, and so generous about sharing what it's like to think and feel through the alternative paths when your original vision of your future takes an unexpected turn. She lives in Ajax, Ontario, Canada with her husband, Ian,
PSC Mami- Monika 01:37 What has been your PSC journey? How long ago were you diagnosed?
Jessica 01:41 Okay, so in 2001, I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, it was an abrupt onset, I guess you can say. It just kind of came out of the blue and it was like, without being too graphic, let's just say like, it sent me to the hospital. The first day anything happened. I went through a whole bunch of tests trying to figure out what that was and what was going on there and then had the ulcerative colitis diagnosis. And then, about a year later, I was diagnosed with PSC and that was purely by accident. So my doctor said I looked pale, which I thought was kind of ironic because I'm fair skinned and I've got red hair. So it was just sort of like that, but I like every day. But But he wanted to do bloodwork, I was like, sure, whatever. So he did my bloodwork and then sat me down in his office, and he's like, well, your liver numbers are really high. And we were discussing what it possibly could be and he was like, well, you're you know, you don't have any of these symptoms. And he'd mentioned itching. And although I don't, that's not a major symptom for me at the time. I was feeling itchy like are on my legs and things like that and I was getting little blood blisters. So I said, well, I do have some itching and he's like, oh, and then he kind of just paused and I was like, uh-oh, I got a diagnosis for PSC within like a month or so. That being said, it was kind of on the back burner because all of my major concerns at the time were ulcerative colitis. So, my had a, an emergency total colectomy and temporary ileostomy, about 2004. And that was again, that was like a complete shock. I went into the hospital just thinking I was going to get some medication and ended up with a temporarily ileostomy and no colon, and then I swore I was never going to go back for another surgery and then a year later, I ended up getting a reconnection done. So I had my ileostomy take down, and then how to reconnection, and then things were pretty asymptomatic as far as PSC was concerned. And I, my husband, Ian and I went to went and did some traveling. So we were gone for about three years and I didn't see a doctor for three years, and just kind of ignored anything that was kind of going on. And then when we kind of got back to Canada, I started to follow up with doctors again. And it's only been in the last, I'd say about two years that I've been noticing some symptoms now and most of its fatigue and a little bit of itching here and there, but fatigue is now starting to become more and more of an issue.
PSC Mami- Monika 04:31 And how do you think PSC you know, you were diagnosed fairly young, has it shaped your view of your future?
Jessica 04:39 Because I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis first and went through a lot of medical stuff and a lot of, I went from being really healthy as far as, like I to go from never having like, I didn't even have allergies, to all of a sudden being diagnosed with ulcerative colitis and then over the next two years, because I was 21, so by the time I was 23, you know, I already went through, I'm now having like my colon removed and all this crazy stuff and then came out on the other end, just being very appreciative of my life and how lucky I am. Even even with all the stuff that I had went through like I was fully aware of the fact that there are definitely people who were far worse off or I could have had things happen to me. I was lucky to be alive. Because essentially speaking when I when for that went in for that surgery, my whole insides were toxic, essentially, they were worried my colon was going to burst in that in that I was going to become septic. So that's why it was such like it was an emergency surgery. After going through all of that, like I said, like I was very thankful and then went from again, like I was very restricted as far as like what it was that I could eat and like how I was feeling I had urgency issues for like going to the bathroom. So my life revolved around where bathroom was, like I carried extra clothes with me because I was worried. So I went from living a life of like constant stress and fear. Like I'd be afaid to eat some days to finally getting some relief.
Jessica 06:21 So, like, it's hard for me to compare it because like with my symptoms with PSC, there's so much, I guess you can say, calmer and not nearly quite as stressful as what I've already been through. So I'm just kind of like I can deal with this as far as like looking down the road or the future as far as like a liver transplant and that kind of thing and knowing that it's not it's a disease that can't be fixed. Ulcerative Colitis was sort of the same thing. So then once I made it through the surgery, I knew that I still had my PSC diagnosis and knew that eventually that was going to start to affect me as well. So it was kind of like just live life as best as I can now and just be thankful and don't have any regrets. That was my biggest thing is just be like, just making sure that I'm, if something were to happen today I'd be able to look back on my life and be like, kay, do I have any regrets and I can honestly say Idon't. So I try to take care of myself the best they can and just kind of take one day at a time at a time, because otherwise it's just too stressful. You worry about things that might never know might not ever happen. And everybody's so different in our disease, right, with ulcerative colitis, Chrohn's, PSC especially too like, we're all very different and how it affects us. So
PSC Mami 07:44 Has your diagnosis of PSC started to feel any different as your symptoms have kind of become more prevalent?
Jessica 07:54 I would say yes. Like they always call it an invisible disease. So you don't look sick. And for the longest time, I didn't feel sick either. And I just had these numbers on a piece of paper that said that they were abnormal. I had nothing to show for it really. Now that I'm starting to get some symptoms, it's becoming more real, I guess you could say, like I'm seeing it now start to affect my life. When I was in my 20s the doctor who's following me there for PSC was saying how, you know, it's, it's possible that you could just plateau and then just stay there, and you might not get any worse. So I think I had that in my brain. I'm just not going to get worse. And then time went on and I got my bloodwork done and numbers were coming back and stuff things were things on paper were getting worse. So I was kind of like, Hmm, I don't see anything. So I was kind of like, well, maybe I can ignore it still. And then again, like I traveled for three years, didn't see a doctor and then I was having water retention in my legs. And I was talking to my aunt, like, oh, it runs in the family and there's all you know, so I think I kind of had convinced myself that maybe it was just, it would just stop. Or maybe it just wouldn't like it because I also too, I try to almost justify it and be like, I've already been through so much like, you know, how can I still be going through stuff, but it's still yeah, you know, it's, it's becoming more and more of a, I guess a realization that this isn't just on a piece of paper. It's not just doctors, you know, pulling my leg or something like that, that becoming a problem. So I guess now I'm starting to have to actually sort of deal with having PSC whereas before I could kind of ignore it.
PSC Mami- Monika 09:52 Did you have a vision for motherhood before you were diagnosed with PSC and UC?
Jessica 09:58 Yeah, yeah, it's for sure, I grew up in a house with a single parent. I lived with one sister. So it was a house full of girls. So if anything, I thought that maybe you know, I'd end up with kids and be a single parent like my mom. Because I think I think that kind of happens, right? Like you kind of envision yourself maybe growing up to be like your parents point. I think I had that kind of idea in my head. And I always worked with kids. I liked working with kids and that kind of thing. I don't think I think it took me a while before I thought I would be ready to have children and I did go through a period where I was like, um, I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna have kids and then you end up meeting the right person, or even when you're dating and you're like, well, I have I have a family with this person. Like you start thinking about things like that. So it definitely was, it was in the plan. I was gonna I was gonna if I was gonna find the right person, and I did like I ended up getting married in my 20s. We talked about having kids thought If I'm gonna have kids and like, I'll have them before, I'm 30 years old. So we started, I guess, trying but not trying. So like I we just weren't using any kind of birth control. And just sort of like, well, if it happens, then we'll be happy about it.
PSC Mami- Monika 11:17 Had you talked to your medical team at all?
Jessica 11:19 No. No, so don't yeah, that's not something I would recommend. But again, that was also in a time in my life where we're away and I wasn't, I wasn't being followed by any doctors. And I was ignoring, ignoring the fact that I had PSC, because I like, again, no symptoms, really. So I was sort of like meh. I'm sure it's fine. I was very smart. And I do. I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. To this day, I still believe that so like, I'm pretty sure there's a good reason why I didn't get pregnant then. We were of the attitude, if I get pregnant then great. And if I don't, no big deal. So we did that for a few years. And then as I like when we came back home, and I started to be followed by doctors again, and I mentioned it to my hepatologist and his attitude, I mean, I'm very lucky with the doctors that I've got, or anything that's extremely important, regardless of whether your family planning or not. So you could tell he wasn't a fan of the idea necessarily, if he was honest and said, like, Look, there's going to be challenges and issues more than likely, how maybe it'll be high risk, you'll need to be followed, we'll need to monitor you. But if that's what you really want, then I'll support that that decision, essentially, you've sort of like, I'm not going to take that away from you. Because I and he also said that he himself like he's a father. So he's like, you know, he understands wanting to have a family. So that was his attitude towards it, which was wonderful. It was just sort of like taking one step at a time, we ended up going to a fertility specialist in the end, just because again, nothing was really happening. And also too, we just thought it was a good idea again, like I wasn't like completely stressed out, we weren't, we didn't necessarily think that there was some major issues although because of my surgeries, we kind of wondered like that, that there could be a potential problem there.
Jessica 13:26 Unfortunately, the the fertility specialist that we saw wasn't somebody that I would like to go back to visit ever again. That being said, though, we got the information that we needed from him. So it turns out that both of my fallopian tubes are, are blocked, we can't unblock them. So you know, in discussing it with him, it kind of we kind of came to the conclusion that it was more than likely the scar tissue or or the surgeries that I'd had that probably caused the blockage in both my fallopian tubes. So me getting pregnant on my own wasn't gonna happen. So we learned that.
PSC Mami- Monika 14:08 What was that like for you?
Jessica 14:10 Um, disappointing I guess get these an understatement. Yeah, I was disappointed but I guess at the same time though, I wasn't ready to give up yet. It's hard looking back because it's been it's been quite like it's been a few years now like, you know, five, five to seven years since we've gone through this. But it was I do remember it being emotional roller coaster where it was like we were talking like when we were trying and we weren't really worried about the things it was like, I had names picked out like we had names for boy and a girl just in case. And we talked about whether we wanted to know the sex of the baby or not. So we went from having discussions like that, to now. We like 100% know that I cannot get pregnant without help.
Jessica 15:01 So now we're looking at, you know, the alternatives were potentially like an IVF situation, adoption, surrogacy, there's all these things. So we went back to my hepatologist and talked to him about it. And with the IVF situation, there's there were a lot of drugs that you were going to have to be on in order for something like that to to work, and that's not something that he recommended at all. He was actually pretty, pretty concerned and said like, that's not a good idea for somebody with a liver issue, especially PSC. He's like, it's not something that I want you like I would want you to go through and then also too, we, we considered the, like the money factor of it all as well. We talked about surrogacy and I actually had a friend who has It offered to be a surrogate for me. And then talk to my hepatologist about that. And then again, it was the same kind of issues where even just to get she and I, we'd have to sync our cycles. So that I guess with the eggs and all that stuff anyways, at the end of the day, he was like, the drugs that they put you on for that type of a thing. He's like, there are some people that will get really sick from those drugs. And he's like, those are people who are healthy. You, you know if you ran into any kind of problems, like he pretty much with without actually saying it. He pretty much said we could be looking at me getting really sick and then potentially, like, you know, escalating the PSC, after a lot of discussion and stuff, just not. Again, we're running into all these problems.
Jessica 16:51 We thought about adoption. Aside from money, there's also things there's a lot of things to consider with adoption. I had friends that have adopted and I talked to I'll talk to them in depth over the phone and through their process about how long it was going to take. And and by this point, I'm art, I think I was already 30 or 31. And for one, my one friend, I think it took them two years and that was quick. That was a really fast adoption. Two years and like, I still had my mind like, I didn't want to be too much older than 30 I think part of it too was realizing that with PSC, if it progresses and all this stuff that now like I'm also this isn't just time like as far as how old I am. Cuz that wasn't. I wasn't too concerned about that. But there was a lot of consideration to about if I get sick and how sick how, how sick will I get and how quick will it happened and like what's going to happen in two years like is, you know, so like two years ago long time, we've heard stories of people waiting for like way, way longer than that. And it just, there's so much to consider when you're having a baby and you're considering your own health. Nevermind, there's and like, I already know that my health isn't great. So that like we're already this. It's just yeah, the more and more we talked about it, the more and more it was just like the universe was like, this isn't a good idea. And then it's really it's really funny because again, like I said, everything happens for a reason. So we're going through all this went through these roller coasters and like thinking and rethinking things and like, do I want to risk my own health to try and have a baby and how bad do I want one and am I going to be okay to take care of this child? Regardless of how, you know whether we adopt or surrogacy or IVF, or whatever we were going to do. Financially, we're going to be okay. And then I just finally said to Ian one day, I was like, You know what, I just, we're gonna do it. We're gonna, we're gonna like whatever the money. I'm like, whatever it's going to cost I want to try because again, like I was thinking in the terms of I wanted to look back and think to myself, we did everything that we could have done at the time. And I don't I didn't want to look back and regret not trying something. I said, I want to try, like, however we were going to do it I want to try and he was like, okay, like, if this is what you really want, he's like, okay, but I could tell he like he wasn't thrilled and just wasn't thrilled because of all the risks that we had been talking about.
Jessica 19:54 And then two weeks later, I woke up I was getting ready for work. And I had this crazy pain in my, like, under my ribcage and I just, I ended up in the hospital with a perforated ulcer. Again I was in I had emergency surgery came out fine, but it was a certain case, like it was a case where I went in to, like I we don't live Ajax isn't a huge town. We're just outside of Toronto. So Toronto is kind of like the main hub. That's where all my doctors are and we live outside of there. So it's a smaller hospital. They didn't know what PSC was, and they're telling me they're gonna have to open me up and do surgery and I was like, um, so you know, can we can go to a different hospital, can I go downtown that knows what PSC is. And the surgeon came in and he said, if we don't do surgery, he's like, you're gonna die. So I was like, okay, so we're gonna stay. We'll do the surgery. So they did the surgery, fixed me up. I recovered, okay, came home and then I turned bright yellow within, like within a couple of days and ended up back in the hospital again and we thought I was gonna have to have a transplant because my liver was all out of whack from the stress of the ulcer and it was perforated. So I had again, I had bile leaking into my system and so made through all of that my numbers evened out, six months later, I think I was back at work. And no, we started getting back on track again. And yeah, I we decided we're not weren't gonna have kids.
PSC Mami- Monika 21:48 What was that conversation like?
Jessica 21:50 I don't even remember having a conversation. I'm sure we did. But I don't remember having it. I just
PSC Mami- Monika 21:58 So you remember in your own heart realizing or deciding that you're you have changed your mind?
Jessica 22:05 Oh, yeah, for sure, like because, like I said, it was my whole thing of everything happens for a reason. I just said, I think I said to Ian when he like he was visiting me in the hospital at one point. And I think I said to him, I'm like, if the universe is trying to tell me that I shouldn't be having a baby. I'm like, this is probably the biggest sign that I've received. Every roadblock we came across, I just kind of ignored it, or I skipped it, or we considered it like, you know what I mean, but I just kind of was like, even despite all of that, you know, and having my doctors telling me it's probably not a good idea, and it's, you know, it's really high risk and it's even more high risk than then just trying to have a baby on your own and then all the money that it was gonna cost it you know, to do any of this stuff, and me just ignoring it and being like, Nope, I'm going to do it anyways. I think that was just, you know, I don't know I think it was just the universe telling me that how can you be is just not it just wasn't meant to be for us.
PSC Mami- Monika 23:16 And and how did that sit with you?
Jessica 23:21 Well, to be fair, I think because of everything that we had been through I think like I was okay with it. It wasn't I can't say it was necessarily easy because we had also talked I mean, don't forget like yes, we talked about having a baby we also talked about not having a baby though like in all of this right, we talked about when Ian be okay, if we didn't have a kid, would it be okay if we didn't have a child like would we be okay with that? And I mean, I think to some extent, like just because like me having a baby on my own wasn't going to happen. And we knew that. So this was going to take effort. And then there's always a chance to like, even with surrogacy or IVF, or even adoption, like any of that stuff, even if you do it, there's always a chance it's not going to work. There's always going to be that possibility that maybe it just won't happen for you. So, I mean, that was always a consideration. So we had talked through everything. So I knew like he was okay if we didn't, if we didn't have a baby, because like, that was the other.
Jessica 24:35 One of the discussions that we did have is like, you know, if because, again, you don't know what's gonna happen with PSC and you have to be really realistic when you're talking about having a child or having a family or even having this disease like, like I'm always I always look on the bright side of things. Like I'm always there's a silver lining to every cloud sort of deal. But at the same time, it's like, I want to be realistic. So I want to talk through everything, like every possibility. So we always talked about, like, if something were to happen to me, you know, how, how would Ian be able to cope or so that was we had that discussion, like if something were ever like, because I don't know what type of risk was going to happen as far as me having a baby when we were discussing that so I'm like, what happens if, if I passed away? Like, would he be okay with a child on his own? Is he going to be able to cope? Like, I was gonna be sick all the time? Was he gonna be okay, taking care of a child and working and you know what I mean, like, so, you know, at the end of the day, and again, like I when we were in the hospital, and I said, I think this is the universe telling me that we shouldn't be having a child. I think he was almost relieved, I think, just because I think he was really worried. I just don't think he let on so much and he's if that was what I wanted to do, he was going to be supportive. And he would support me in that. Because he also understands to like wanting to have a child or what have you. And like all of our friends are going through that, you know, going through having children at, you know, they were all at that stage in their lives, we still have friends now that are going through that.
PSC Mami- Monika 26:23 Having accepted what life has brought you or the universe prior to you. How does it feel with your friends sort of entering this other phase? Is it still bring that up? Or do you feel really grounded in your decision?
Jessica 26:38 I definitely feel grounded. For sure, like there I do have moments and they become they become fewer and fewer as we get older. But we'd have moments. I don't know how to put it not wishing. I guess like we're seeing like our nieces and nephews or friends. kids grow up and Like we're all i'm also out of state, like my sister and I are at a stage now where we're starting to take care of our mom sort of thing. And it's sort of like, well, when we get old who's gonna take care of us? Or, you know, like I had things like I was keeping things like I had, like, baby stuff that I always thought that you know, my childhood wear
PSC Mami- Monika 27:26 It's okay
Jessica 27:45 Thinking about how I must sound like, whimpering.
PSC Mami- Monika 27:50 You sound real. You sound like many of the other women who have been in our shoes sound like.
Jessica 28:00 Fair enough. But, yeah, you keep stuff because you think you're gonna have children and you'll be able to pass on to them. I still have some of that stuff in boxes. So you just like I do go through phases of thinking, What am I going to do with that? Or who can I give it to now? Or is it even worth me keeping anymore? Because it's like I don't you know, there's no need to really pass it down to unless you're going to pass that stuff down to nieces and nephews and that sort of thing. So like I said, like it does get, we do.
Jessica 28:48 I think it's more probably more me than Ian. But we do go through like I go through phases of thinking like, Oh, I wonder what it would have have been like, that, and you know, at the end of the day though. I always like there's lots that we're that we're both very thankful for. It's just that you just kind of have to, I guess, not, I don't want to say deal with. You kind of take whatever life is gonna give you and do the best you can with it.
PSC Mami- Monika 29:44 And you talked earlier about wanting to not regret and you know that things are different maybe then you envision them. What are things that, do you have moments where you're like, wow, I wouldn't have ever imagined this for myself, but this is pretty great?
Jessica 30:02 We have. I don't know that we necessarily talked about having having dogs before we started talking about children. But as soon as we made the decision or as soon as the decision was made for us that you know, having a child wasn't wasn't going to happen for us. Like it didn't take very long and we were talking about actually, we ended up getting your dog just a couple of months after I got out of the hospital.
Jessica 30:39 In it, she was probably the one of the best things that you know, that could have happened or that could have been for us. So we have we have two dogs now. So we have a Springer Spaniel and a golden doodle. And I know it's funny because I'm comparing having a dog to haveing a child but at the same time though, like, I mean, it's the closest thing that we're gonna get to having a baby I think is having our fur babies. But at the same time, though again, like, like I do I, I'm very thankful for you know that what, like, as far as my health is concerned, like yeah, again, like I went through a lot but you know, I still I came out, I think I come out stronger every time I have to go through something I come out stronger in the end. You get a little beat up along the way, but but he definitely come out stronger in the end, I think.
Jessica 31:43 You know, one of the things that I was that I've always been really thankful for is that it didn't take us very long to figure it out. And I have a reason. Like we were able to go into a fertility clinic and within like, I don't know a few weeks I knew that I couldn't have a baby. I knew why. And it's not like it was some unexplicable thing, we only went through a very short period of time of going through that emotional roller coaster of discussing have a baby. Whereas, you know, you see, like other people or, you know, friends or family members that go through something similar but they're going through that emotional rollercoaster for so much longer.
PSC Mami- Monika 32:30 Given where you're at now and what you've been through and work through and live through, like, Is there anything you would go back and tell your self when you were diagnosed about sort of this particular journey and as part of the journey that you've been on?
Jessica 32:46 I'm the type of person who worries, so I don't, actually to be fair, I don't think I would have said anything to myself back then. Because I also I wasn't like when I was initially diagnosed. The last thing that was on my mind was having babies when I was in my early 20s. All I wanted to do was be able to not have to worry about where the closest bathroom was. I'm glad I didn't know that because I think it would have made this my first surgery a lot harder. It was already hard enough. Like I think I was in shock for a really long time, like, after my first surgery just because like I said, like, I've never really been in the hospital for my 20s and then going through surgery like I never I think that was like sort of one of my first hospital stays was that surgery and I I was under the assumption I was gonna leave the hospital and I'll be totally fine. I'd be dancing. So I was like really like I just it was not at all what I expected and. Yeah, I don't think I would have been able to really cold and then I think after that I think I just want to worried about it, and I couldn't have done anything about it. My choice would have been either I have the surgery or I wasn't going to like I was gonna die. They had to do that surgery to know for me to live my life. And I wouldn't have changed that
PSC Mami- Monika 34:20 You and Ian talked a lot and processed a lot for you to come to this decision. Was there anyone else you spoke to or supported you during or after making that decision?
Jessica 34:31 We did. I did talk to my parents about it. And they knew that we were trying for a while and I don't you know, it's funny because I don't really remember my mom so much. And I'm sure like she worries about me now. So I'm sure at the time like, I'm pretty sure she was totally okay with me not having children, just because she knew that there would be risks as far as me conceiving and stuff, or we're if I know we chose to do another method that there was going to be some issues so. But, I do remember my dad. And it was the same thing and I think I was just surprised because my dad and I don't talk too much as far as like a lot of personal stuff, but I do like I just remember being surprised by his reaction of relieved again, like kind of like Ian like, as far as when he found out that we weren't going to have kids funny because like, you get so wrapped up in wanting to have a baby so bad. Like I was willing just to kind of do whatever it took, like I think I think I kind of lost sight as to what kind of risks we were kind of we might have been looking at. Whereas everybody on the outside, I think they were more concerned. And even, Ian like, I think they were more concerned about my own health and worried about whether or not they're gonna have grandkids or have a baby
PSC Mami- Monika 35:59 I really appreciate how honest you've been and how much you've shared. And is there anything you want to add or anything that you kind of reflected on as you've spoken or
Jessica 36:10 I think the biggest thing like when you are considering if you have PSC, or any other like health care concerns, definitely, definitely talk to your doctors before making any kind of decision and talk like talk to them and figure it out and it is going to be very different for each person. I think my like my biggest piece of advice to women who are considering having children with PSC or any disease, that that's quite complex is because everybody is so different. It's so hard. It's so hard to compare yourself to somebody else. Because what I went through or what my issues are or as far as like conceiving, and even what my doctors say or suggest are going to be very different than somebody else's situation or what somebody else's doctors think or say. So I think my biggest advice is to i do i do strongly encourage, like, think through all the options Good, good or bad, as morbid as it might kind of seem at the time, it's good to talk through every possible scenario.
Jessica 37:32 But talk to your doctors, like, you know, try to get as much information from them, like what does high risk mean? And you know, when when is is there a good time or is you know, if you were to wait, what does that look like? You know, like I don't think can't, nobody else has, has the answers for you All we can, all we can do is is tell you the stories that we've gone through ourselves. And then hopefully that will give you some insight to, you know, whether you do end up conceiving and it ends up being fantastic. Or if you ended up coming to that conclusion that you know, it's, it's not right for you or maybe you're not able to. I mean, at the end of the day, though, there's, I mean, there's still so much to be thankful for you it'll be really hard, regardless, I think, but everybody's story is so different.
PSC Mami- Monika 38:54 That's truth. Thank you so much.
Jessica 38:56 No problem.
38:59 Gracias mamis for listening. I'm sorry you're here, but I'm so glad you found us. I've gotten really great feedback about the first three episodes with these ladies stories. Could you take the time this week to rate and review us on iTunes and follow us on Facebook and Twitter @pscmami Thank you and go to PSCMami.com for resources and a link to share your story.
